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This is different from the stranded wire in that the different individual wires, each with their color-coded insulation, is placed inside a secondary insulation wrap. Ryan developsmodeltrainlayouts for public andprivate display. The farther from the transformer the more resistance in the rails and your engine will slow down. This thing has more power then I will ever need. Are you running command or conventional? In three-rail systems, the outer rails are both grounded, and the center rail is "hot.". Although I am an electrical engineer, I just add stuff until the transformer gets too warm and then I branch off and add another. It is 5" long. Whatever colors and pattern you choose, just make sure to keep a good notebook handy to reference later. "What size wire should I use?" Fortunately, there is an easy way to tell these cars apart, and the key is the numbers Lionel assigns to them. You can also minimize voltage drop at the rail joints by soldering the rails together. Again, an independent power supply and distribution bus is a good idea for your switches. A bigger transformer is better and always looks nicer too! For a transformer less or equal to 500 kilovolt-amperes, a typical %Z impedance may vary between 2.3% and 5.2% based on the voltage level. Note: if you proceed, you will no longer be following, $12.00 per 12 Months (plus tax if applicable). They do not include a track or power supply, so you will need to buy both separately. Kind Regards Steve, QUOTE: by Dave Has anyone here ever blown a transformer from hauling a double-headed Allegheny coal drag up a 2 percent grade?. They have everything you need for a basic setup, and the larger ones are capable of running the smaller layouts you see in the train magazines, so they have some room for growth. They are fun to have. The motor takes electricity through a small wire attached to a metal wheel that rests on the middle rail underneath. If you need a device that converts from different voltages so it can power another device, then a transformer will fulfill that role perfectly. 4.1 4.1 out of 5 stars (15) Ages: 14 years and up. If you want a transformer with power to spare go get a ZW! Hello All: Another simple way of doing it, Only load the transformer to 75% of it's capacity, or take your total load & multiply by 125% for proper transformer sizing. The Lionel ZW is Lionel's most iconic transformer of the 1950s and 1960s, and perhaps one of its most iconic products, period. Just not quite as much. On a large loop of track you will need to have multiple drops, hook-ups, to the transformer because if you only have one hook up the train will get slower the father away it gets from the transformer. If this happens, you will need another transformer to share the load. "O" Gauge is what Lionel is today, along with "O27". Lionel Model Railroad and Train Transformers Lionel Model Railroad and Train Transformers Best Selling Lionel 1908080 O Gauge CW80 Transformers - Black (4) $147.85 New $110.00 Used Lionel Legacy Powermaster Lnl637146 (13) $134.99 New $90.00 Used Lionel 634120 TMCC Direct Lock-On Transformer - Silver (21) $58.99 New $49.99 Used If you are wiring with a common rail for your blocks, then keeping the common rail the same color all the time while changing the color for the other rail in each block is also an option. The 1044 is just a 1033 in a different case. I'll take this information and run with it to help get me started. (10 lights X . My question is this in order that this doesn't happen again what type of transformer would you recommend? The typ miniature incandecents we use average about 100 ma of current each. Lionel trains value varies depending on design, materials, and era. You can't count on a lack of compatibility issues for one Legacy locomotive being definitive for all Legacy locomotives, for example. Many manufacturers assemble cases with special screws to prevent access to the inside and accidental shock. Lionel makes two expansion sets for this purpose. There is no reason why your Lionel ZWs and Flyer big ones cant be used to run AC-powered trains of any vintage new or old. They are known as HO train sets because they are half the size of O-guage. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. I don't want to buy a lot more track, but then find out the transformer is too weak, if that make sense. Twin coil machines have a higher current draw when in motion but are also much faster-acting than the motorized versions. All power supplies will be rated for volts, amps, and watts. Price Received. Many load and unload freight from specially designed cars as well. With the ever-increasing amount of small electronics in today's sophisticated models, this protection is more important than ever. DCC is less common in starter sets, but some are available. Electric Trains make great power supplies, depending on usage, on a DCS controlled layout. In this case Id go with a postwar TW 175 watt transformer. A large number of the Lionel Collectors Club UK use this set up to good effect. It is best to use at least two different colors for your track wiring (one for each rail). Theres nothing inherently wrong with them, though I would shy away from the smaller transformers that are less than 75 watts, including the modern CW-40. Serving these devices with their own dedicated supply will not only allow you to supply them with a proper constant voltage, but it will also free your main power supply to handle the load of the train itself. For more realistic operation, you need some kind of speed control (throttle) between the 10340 Automatic Reversing Unit and your transformer. Viola, DCS on alternate power blocks, Max signal, Happiness. Some systems will use bluetooth technology enabling you to control the trains with your tablet or cell phone. That transformer will only prolly handle 1 engine and depending on how long it is will depend on how many extra feeders you will need around the layout. Keep the power supplies in an area where they get plenty of air circulation to prevent overheating. This type of transformer is cheap, its reliable, and its easy to find. What type is your old transformer? Forgot about light bulbs since I don't got some yet. Buyers truly want all-original trains that have never been tampered with. Professionals Need: Kindle Direct Publishing Indie Digital & Print Publishing Made Easy Amazon Photos Unlimited Photo Storage Free With Prime: Prime Video Direct EXPLORE FasTrack 10" Straight Track 4-Pack 6-12032 $ 21.99 FasTrack Grade Crossing with Flashers 6-12052 $ 99.99 FasTrack O36 Curved Track 4-Pack 6-12033 $ 21.99 Legacy AMC-2 Motor Controller Hello, I'm new to this site, and completely new to toy trains also - so please pardon my ignorance! Plan on using the KW's for the big layout and 1033's like I did before. Sell Your Trains To A Train Dealer or a Single Buyer. I'm guessing the MTH Z1000 is around $100 and the other suggestions are much more expensive. They're controlled with a simple handheld remote control and run on easy-to-connect plastic track. As time goes on you can add higher wattage bricks one by one. There are also numerous static accessories that do not operate but add visual interest to your layout, such as the #24219 girder bridge. The best of the best Lionel trains are very valuable. Connecticut Valley Railroad -- A Branch of the New York, New Haven, And Hartford. What do I need to do that with? This is interesting stuff. Transformer capacity is rated in KVA (kilo-volt-amperes). editors report that most of the wiring issues they address involve basic principles of electricity - the stuff that Ben Franklin played with when he flew his kite. This would be more than enough for any single train and a few accessories. The KW used to be really expensive, but since Lionel started making big transformers again, you can get a KW for what a 1033 used to cost, which makes it a very nice bargain today on a rugged and powerful transformer with an impressive presence. (Use buss/feeder lines to distribute power.) But if you already have a 1034 and dont need a whistle button, go ahead and use it. Price Received. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. Used a 1033 for accessories and lights. Scale cars almost always have the number 7 as the second digit in their number [17623, 27241, etc]. Lionel is also introducing a new 180 watt transformer to accompany the 80 watt CW 80. Although all Lionel cars operate on O Gauge track, the bodies of the cars are made in two slightly different sizes. You should take care, however, to replace worn cords and wires. --Toy Train Collecting and Operating, by John Grams. Lionel Multi-Car Freight Sets + More MTH Halloween! A: According to Lionel's head of customer service, on the underside of their CW80 transformers, starting in late 2009, the vendor applied a sticker that states "QC50" on it. HO gauge is very popular because of its size. While it is tempting to go with the biggest wire possible to guarantee excess capacity, there are drawbacks to putting in more than you need. Take the hint. The other type of cars are the Scale cars, which are exact or near-exact replicas of actual freight cars. Its a good transformer. --Build a Better Toy Train Layout, by John Grams and Dick Christianson. Not wanting to give up, I experimented with an 80 watt modern Lionel transformer and got great results. On the flip side, the new transformers do not seem to work as well with the prewar whistle tenders.Has anyone else noticed this anomaly? American Flyer Trains were made in several gauges. The 190-wattLionel KWwas the second biggest and second best transformer of the postwar era. They give a true 180 watts and have excellent electronic breakers. This has the added advantage that Lionel TMCC (command control) will operate correctly. My layout I am building is 5 sheets of 4x8 plywood and it will probaly take me 100 years to build it (I hope I have that much time left). Today Lionel includes the same basic track oval in all starter sets8 36-inch diameter curve sections, 3 10 straight track sections, and 1 10 straight terminal section, which create this layout: Until recently, to add to this layout, you would need to buy separate straight, curved, and other track sections and wing it in creating a larger setup. That it not to say that there are not engineering formulae to calculate the current draw and thus the wattage, but far and away the easiest method is to measure it. God bless TCA 05-58541 Benefactor Member of theNRA, Member of the American Legion, Retired Boss Hog of Roseyville , KC&D Qualified. Like all electronic products, you want to make sure your power supplies are rated by the appropriate body for your country (UL for example). The CW-80 Transformer was meant to operate on 120-volt, 60-Hertz power. The choice of a control system is somewhat, but not necessarily, dependent on which manufacturers engines you prefer or have the most of. Most people start with a pre-packaged train set. The 1044 is just a 1033 in a different case. Steve's rule of thumb for derating is very close to and in the same spirit as the NEC rule that an appliance may not draw more than 80 percent of the current rating of the outlet. Classification/marker lights on the PRR steam engine, For Sale: Lionel 6-11127 Legacy Southern Pacific GS-4 Daylight, Lionel Bethlehem Steel slag car and ATLAS NYC Baggage car, Lionel O 2333790 TrainWorld & RBP Trains Chris Raines -Exclusive - Katy LEGACY ES44AC #2021, Converting MTH Rail king GS-4 PROTO 2 to ERR Cruise Commander, The Harpers Ferry Layout II - Backdrop panels completed. Adding more freight or passenger cars [also known as rolling stock] to your set is another way to quickly expand your railroad. There are a few standards when it comes to the color-coding. Obviously, for a lot of people, the $700 Lionel ZW-L transformer is overkill. (Electrical Contractor with dear old Dad for 30 years) Regards Steve. I am assuming that your starter set came with either o27, brown ties, or 031, black ties, track and it runs well as is. Mark. The iconic and legendary 270-wattLionel ZW was the biggest and best transformer Lionel made in the postwar era. A while back, approximately 2 weeks ago while running two very lengthy loops of fast track an old transformer nearly fried (50 years old) one of my wires that I was running to my Fastrac. If your layout is bigger than 48, you may actually find trains run a bit better with a KW than with a smaller transformer. Reading & Northern, Reading Company, Reading Lines, Philadelphia & Reading. As your needs grow, you can employ a larger transformer of fixed voltage. Smaller feeder wires are used to bridge the small gap from the bus to the track. Lionel developed and perfected its model designs and layouts during the Pre-War Era (1901-1942). If you continue to use this site we will assume that you are happy with it. Starter sets almost always include a power supply along with the track and train. A small set that came with track, transformer, etc. Don't just discard your starter set pack, though. The customer will still need a step down transformer to get the 220V to 110V. The KW has constant voltage outputs for accessories, the ZW don't have that feature just four handles for supplying power to four tracks or accessories if you like, both have whistle & direction feature. There isn't a one-size-fits-all solution, so you'll need to consider what you want to do and measure your options accordingly. Atlas and Bachmann have the same transformers with 80 watt outputs as well that get good reviews and would be appropriate for a smaller layout. If you found this post informative or helpful, please share it! For most layouts, and most scales, Number14 stranded wire will work best for your bus. A new ZW will run you in the neighborhood of $450.00 or a little less depending on your dealership. An Essential Guide for Toy Train Enthusiasts! Our community is FREE to join. The old transformer is not really the problem, the problem is the supply wire, particularly under heavyload (or derailment without the benefit of a quicker breaker). All Lionel transformer comparisons should start here. CW80 Transformer. Ryan Kunkle is a nationally recognized professional model train expert and writer with over 25 years of experience. There was a video by Mike Reagan from Lionel about better smoke output from a chopped wave transformer, but the pure sine wave didn't cause any operational issues. Retrofitting a subway line into existing benchwork - and are subway sets still being made? Service/Tested $55.00 1 bid $14.06 shipping 1d 6h LIONEL TYPE (KW) TRAINMASTER TRANSFORMER FOR PARTS OR RESTORATION $17.05 4 bids $19.95 shipping 9h 23m www.spankybird.shutterfly.com, God bless TCA 05-58541 Benefactor Member of theNRA, Member of the American Legion, Retired Boss Hog of Roseyville , KC&D Qualified. Most two-rail track systems use direct current (DC). You don't want to try to solder even Number 16 gauge wire right to your rails, however. Mint-in-box examples of vintage Lionel trains are still valuable and will continue to appreciate in value over time, because there are so few of them. But after a little while, you will likely want your train to do more, and youll start thinking along these lines: --It sure would be neat if it did more than run in a circle. The first Lionel electric trains were powered by wet-cell batteries, which were, of course, dangerous. (NEW/LIKE NEW), running TMCC And DCS engines with DCS handheld, terrible crash in Greece, multiple fatalities, Its.Public Delivery Track ..NEWSpecial run corner, Improving Appearance of 0-gauge Tubular Track. Lionel uses red and black (red always for the center rail, black for the two outer rails) as a standard in its instructions and most 3-Rail O Gauge layouts are probably wired this way. --Heck, watching one train run is great, Ill bet TWO would be even more fun! If you plan to just run MTH go with their DCS system if you plan to have a number of different engines or the MTH DCS Remote Commander which is limited to running only one engine at a time. Fortunately, in the early 21st century it is easier to expand your starter set than ever before. It states: 1.25 amps for each motor, 0.2 amps for each bulb. electronically controlled outputs. I know my train club had an issue with conventional locomotives not running properly on a layout with DCS and TMCC and apparently solved it by replacing a Lionel transformer with an MRC transformer that puts out a pure sine wave. Here are some guidelines for the most common wiring jobs you'll find. Max Watts on one TIU is 720W. Ive written more about the Lionel ZW here. The load voltage and load amps must be known to calculate KVA rating. I talk more in depth about the 1033 here. Pretty much suffered the same fate, too. The power supply that comes with these sets is usually a very small wall pack plug-in that cannot be easily expanded. IF the Engineer is the guy that drives the locomotive then theTechnician must be the fireman is this correct? The Lionel RW also happens to be a great transformer for Marx or American Flyer trains too, when you connect the track leads to the B and U posts instead of the A and U posts youd normally use for most Lionel setups. This tool only evaluates common voltages for North America (ie. Never Enough Room, Time or Money for all the Trains! Lionel Ready-to-Play is a large sized train that's made to be affordable and easy-to-use for both kids and adults alike. Today, with some luck, you can get one for closer to $100. Get 20 articles about compact layouts and how to build them. We use a ZW 275 and a KW on this, so 405 watts. Lionel, LLC continued to manufacture and market trains and accessories in O scale under the Lionel brand and S gauge under the American Flyer brand. Tech Support for the OGR Forum (NOT FOR TRAINS), PRR fellas!lets build an S2!! Smaller layouts (a typical 4 foot by 8 foot being a good example) can usually get by with Number16 since the length of the run from the power supply to the track is never more than a few feet. Over the years I have collected boxed(mostly liquor boxes) sets from attics.So I have a variety of transformers on hand. When they were manufactured by The American Flyer Manufacturing Company, they were made in Standard Gauge and a version of "O" gauge. Remember, the only silly question is the one that you did not ask. Of all the questions fielded by the staff of Classic Toy Trains, inquiries regarding layout wiring top the list.While you might expect numerous questions regarding complex techniques or new technologies, CTT. At fifteen volts which is about as much as I can put to it without jumping the track, it pulls an average of 2.5 amps, or 37.5 watts--less than one tenth of the transformer capacity of 400. Good choices are the Lionel 32923 Accessory Transformer, or another 80-watt transformer like the one included in your set, #14198. Do not connect this product to any other power supply. These transformers are much cheaper than they were even just a few years ago, but that just makes them a bigger bargain today. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. As your layout grows so, too, will its power demand. The power supply that comes with these sets is usually a very small wall pack plug-in that cannot be easily expanded. The only time you might not get your full moneys worth is during operation of locomotives equipped with Lionels TMCC or MTHs DCS command-control systems. DCC decoders are one good example where the wire colors are critical. Lionel 1033 90 Watt Multi-control Transformer (102) $9.99 1 bid $16.00 shipping 2d 9h Lionel Type Z 250 Watt Transformer & One 167 Whistle Controllers. I run an MTH 4-6-2 PS-1 pulling five Madisons on about fifty feet of track and the transformer I am using (Z-4000) has a digital amp readout. Some DCC systems also recommend solid wire for certain applications. Make your Christmas complete with a Lionel HO Train under your. The chances are that little power supply isn't going to keep the train running over a full mile, however. Check out my O scale layout progress at MTF, does track consume power? Lest I offend, in another plane of existence I was an electronics tech. The larger wire is usually more expensive and more challenging to work with. Understanding the difference is important in getting the right power supply for your needs. But were talking the trains that are in the absolute best condition and might not have ever run on the track. A model railroad train set designed for use in the United States will have a 115V AC 60Hz power requirement. 24v, 120v, 208v, 240v, 480v, and 600v). These are all good, dependable transformers from the postwar era that are easy to find today, have adequate wattages ranging from 90-270 watts, have a circuit breaker for safety and have a whistle controller. Transformer sizing for new systems A. Number 24 to Number20 wire will all work with most layouts. Price Received. Then the K's will do siding and switching yard duty. The Lionel motor is a collection of four electromagnetic plates with a rotating sweeper arm called a brush. It will require a minimum of 108' of track just to do a basic rectangle before I add any switches, etc. All Lionel transformer comparisons should start here. And of course, Lionel also makes lots of figures to populate your town. A starter set is the best way to start with the train hobby. 40-500 50 Watt AC Transformer - 50 Watt AC transformer suitable for . If you are using only LEDs for lighting, you could get away with even less. Well Mike what I am about to suggest may be a little pricy or at least it was for me but I have managed to buy a new Lionel ZW. I am currently running about 40 bulbs, which at 0.1 A each total 4 amps! Price Received. HO trains are very durable and are made with high quality parts and pieces to ensure the longevity of the Lionel train brand! Safety first. These bus wires are often more important than the size of the power supply itself in getting good results. If you want a station for your trains to stop at, there are both station platforms [#24159] as well as full sized stations [#14257]. 10 Easy Ways to Improve a Christmas Train Display, Wiring a Model Railroad for Block Operation, How to Build and Wire Reverse Loops for Model Trains, How to Choose the Right Transformer for Your Model Trains, Compatibility of Different Model Train Brands, HO Scale Track Plans for Model Train Layouts, buildings, streets, and other scenic accessories. For a passenger train with lighted cars, getting a little more power isnt a bad idea. 40-200 20 Watt DC Transformer - Small DC transformer suitable for powering a single HO diesel or steam locomotive equipped with Proto-Sound 3.0. It would be advantageous if OGR magazine would put an article together comparing the major manufacturers transformers output waveform compatibility/ incompatibilitywith the various manufacturer's locomotives - Atlas O, Weaver, 3rd Rail, MTH , Lionel etc and conventional , DCS , TMCC, Legacy command control. Because of this, like with lighting and accessories, your power supply and wiring for switch machines do not need to be as robust. From 25 Watts to 275 Watts, a Lionel transformer could be found for every power requirment from simple circles of track to extensive railroads. In the middle range, Lionel made a lot of other transformers. You have pretty much pointed up the major problem, everything is different. Besides the train and track, accessories provide a lot of fun and animation to any setup. The larger transformers could operate up to four trains independently. Lionel made a lot of other transformers over the years. Note that when working with specific products, manufacturers will often recommend a wire size and type. I didnt mention the 1034 above because its easier to find a 1033. The next evolution in model train control is radio- or bluetooth-controlled trains. They run on three rail track. If you add feeders to the track at the farthest point (remember to get the same wire to the same rails) you will not slow down at the farthest point. Mike to the forum. This will solve the slowdown problem. Lionel CW80's can be found for around $50 at Greenberg and other train shows. For a 300W set up this will cost you about 100. In addition to the wire itself, connectors like crimp-on terminals and terminal blocks must also be purchased in larger (and more expensive) sizes. Used 1033's for sidings and the switching yard its self. But it is important to take a close look at the cars to make sure that they are a good match for your set. Again, if you have a very long run between switches, going a little larger is less likely to cause problems with voltage loss. I went to mth Z1000, jason's train shop has the best price's I have seen for these. Does Lionel still make standard gauge trains? As the kit grows and you start putting in turnouts (or the point switching systems) to move your train from one track to another track, you will not only need more than 1 transformer, you will. The whistle requires more power than the outfits that don't have it. For Lionel power the 45 watts is good for a 4 by 8 as a rule of thumb to compensate poor track you just use more feeders. The house's current is reduced to the required low voltage by Trainmaster Transformers. Do not operate the CW-80 Transformer with a damaged cord, plug, or case. Subscribers, sign in to access exclusive content. Power the odd blocks with the other transformer. Traditionally, Lionel trains run on AC but there are exceptions. The transformer, when operated at the lower frequency, may . The smaller of the two is # 12028, which turns your oval into this: There is also the larger 12031 plan, which has a couple extra straight track pieces included, creating this: Even better, one or more of the expansion sets can be combined to create even more interesting track layouts. A small set that came with track, transformer, etc. At an average 14 volts - this is 9x14 = 126 watts - the ZW is getting quite warm and I have not run an accessory or another train yet! The polarities can be reversed to change the direction of the train. A locomotive on a mile-long loop will draw as many amps as it does on a 4x8 platform. I can remember a time when a Lionel ZW would set you back $275. Wire gauges are coded by their size. Many will still run on the track in your starter set, but because they are scale sized, the bodies of these cars may be slightly wider and longer than those in your set. Now, I am going to make a suggesstion that you use a larger diameter curve for your corners. To amplify CTvalley's very valid instructions: A forum community dedicated to model train owners and enthusiasts. Here are some simple definitions for these electrical terms: Most power supplies will be labeled as to the scales they are meant to handle. It is not uncommon to see 50-year-old transformers still going strong on a model railroad. Length of track or type of track doesn't (or shouldn't) matter. Dang, this math makes my head hurt. The Lionel ZW has four sets of posts and six controls. I know this has nothing to do with Mike's original problem but is more of a reflection on Trainman's reply. Replies and comments they make will be collapsed/hidden by default. By creating alternate routes, more complex loops, and storage tracks, your trains will suddenly be even more interesting to watch and they will begin providing you the feeling that they are going somewhere and that you are running a small railroad.

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what size lionel transformer do i need
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